If the steel is overheated in austenitizing, very large reductions in toughness are possible. Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% its relatively corrosion-resistant. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. Thanks again for everything you're doing, it's a tremendous resource. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. If you are looking for a high-end knife on a budget, the varieties of both steel will serve you. Opinel Number 9 in carbon steel, and a Cold Steel Tanto Lite in their stainless steel. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. The excellent corrosion resistance properties of 14C28N are attributed to the high amounts of chromium in its composition. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. I actually dont recommend that enthusiasts spend all that much time analyzing the exact composition of different steels and trying to guess their properties. These steels are perfect for thin edges and high hardness. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. It should get an ultra-sharp edge for easy cutting, hold the edge for long for easy maintenance, and have a sturdy and ergonomic handle for comfort and to prevent accidents. Damascus or pattern welded steel is a result of combining two steels together. Finally, in this 14c28n vs d2, we hope you get the right one. Its a good balance between all three attributes, being relatively hard, tough, and corrosion-resistant. Extra kudos for your mathmatical steel composition to edge holding model thats really impressive work. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. and get better and longer-lasting performance? The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. On the other hand small but mighty, the pocket knife provides both in professional performance and in arresting good looks. Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. High Alloy Tool Steels and High Speed Steels. Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. The Sandvik 14C28N has a very thin and sharp blade that is perfect for slicing through things. Used in knives since at least World War II, 1095 performance varies considerably with an abundance of tweaks in the recipe and heat treat. YMMV D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. In the context of a knife this would be chipped edges or broken knives. What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. [Complete Steel Guide], What is Vg-10 steel?- [Steel Knife Review], The Difference Between 440c steel vs d2: Compared guide, Is 8cr13mov Good Knife Steel [Complete Steel Guide], Amazon Best Sellers in Pocket Knives & Folding Knives. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. Corrosion on knife steels most usually takes the form of rust, patina, and staining. 2. Due to its higher Chromium content, S30v is a lot less likely to corrode/rust than the D2 Steel. If youre having trouble finding the steel you want, see if another manufacturer makes something much like it. Steels patina in the acid at varying rates which allows for one steel to etch darker than the other and show that famous patterned contrast. 1. Its possible that there are steel manufacturers with better processing which would lead to an even carbide distribution but I cant say that without seeing it for myself. On the other hand, Speed safe assisted opening allows for easy blade deployment with the use of a simple pull back on the ambidextrous flipper. can you strike twice as fast with the knife? Thank you for such a great article! Continue with Recommended Cookies. 1. This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. The knife Natrix with substantial copper handle is a deceptively hefty EDC. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. High wear resistance steels are more expensive to buy and to process, especially since many require powder metallurgy. Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. Without any confusion, you can purchase this set that has a slim, versatile, modified drip-point blade with good slicing capabilities. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? 52100 and CruForgeV are good for general purpose knives. These steels are best for knives that dont see impacts and are some of the most difficult to sharpen. But a few overly vocal forgers were making claims about it that clearly were not true especially when comparing it to 5160. Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. CPM 154 rust resistance.Best of all most knives made from this steel can be had for well under $75.In my opinion Sandvik 14c28n is a better overall steel than that of Aus8,420hc,or ANY of the . Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? All Rights Reserved. Ease of sharpening refers to how difficult it is to remove material with a sharpening stone. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness. Im going to give the ratings first and then give more explanation about how the ratings were created. Some of these steels also have vanadium (CruForgeV) or tungsten (Blue Super, V-Toku2, 1.2519) for increased wear resistance. The brand Bark River uses A2 in many models. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. Steels with only vanadium carbides have the best balance of properties because the hardness of carbide matters for edge retention but doesnt for toughness. Among Vancron SuperClean, Agomi #1 and Shirogami #1, Which one tends to have finer grain size and Sharper edge? Its exceedingly tough and relatively hard, but its not stainless. It rusts like nothing Ive seen before and it dull just by looking at it. Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. : at a given toughness, magncut will have better edge retention in real life applications than s90v if it has optimal geometry (or maybe it wouldnt, just an example). Thanks! I like it. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. When it comes to handle material, both knives have options available in either plastic or metal. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. Old time 8670, 5160 (known to ignoramuses as 51shitty) and 52100 are excellent choices and arguably better choices than 80crv2. 1095. Is there a reason SG2/R2 are not included in the lineup, despite being one of the most popular ones? I have an article that lists off the major mistakes often made in heat treating. Very obtuse edges resist chipping better but dont hold their edge as long and dont cut as well. Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. It is most useful for steels with large amounts of carbide but also helps to be able to add certain carbide types. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. How could it be? So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. To reiterate the clearer part, I wonder if toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases as an edge gets thicker. HAP40 This means consumers should be able to maintain these quality knives at home. in the correct place for the stainless-toughness-edge-retention graphic? Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. D2 steel is high carbon steel with no extra addition of Cr or Mo, that's why it is prone to corrosion. There are a lot of different types of steel out there . Why do you give a coin with a knife as a gift? Because of its difficulty in sharpening and machining, its very rarely used and comes with a high price premium. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? It is certainly possible for a knifemaker or heat treating company to do a heat treatment that will have suboptimal properties. Diving into the pool of knife personalization possibilities is a fantastic way to fend off the post-knife-buy blues. Thats a little too far, but you get the point.). This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel. In particular, I have found the ESEE/Rowen 1095 to be less likely to chip and better at holding an edge than the KA-BAR version even in knives with the same role, thickness, and blade length. This is especially important for chopping knives and for knives with thin edges for enhanced cutting ability and edge retention. 14C28N steel, also known as Sandvik 14C28N, is stainless steel made by Sandvik, a European steel company in Sweden. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). whats even more disturbing is that cvn and fracture toughness sometimes (often?) Low Alloy tool steels have small alloy additions to increase hardenability so they harden more easily in oil rather than water. If you have a favorite steel, rock on! Interesting. Its a very hard steel and is exceptionally difficult to sharpen. I have a couple questions, not directly related to this specific post, that I wanted to ask publically so that others could find your responses as well, so here seemed as good a place as any. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. One argument I see consistently leveled against 8Cr13MoV compared to AUS-8 is that of the consistency of the composition. They lack the carbon necessary to hold an edge, even during mild use. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. I have the average composition of the steels rated above (plus some extras) so you can see what the different names refer to. its like with cars, most of them are not a corvette or a porsche. The stainless steel rating. Both steels are popular among knife manufacturers and both have their strengths and weaknesses. Unfortunately a high amount of it decreases strength. They differ little in composition and treatment. However, many kinds of wood are REALLY tough and very hard on blades. While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. Take a look at this edge retention test. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. Its called memory metal because heat can get it to revert back to a previous shape. Later, it gets heated and compressed into one ingot. As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. 14C28N vs. D2. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. Marco, BSc Chem. Spyderco and Cold Steel have used it, though Cold Steel recently switched to S35VN due to availability concerns. 14C28N Leek: D2 Leek: jonnymac44 Joined Sep 27, 2007 Messages 7,674 Oct 21, 2008 #2 Hey Michael, First off, the new 14C28N from Sandvik is just now hitting the streets, and I don't have any results just yet for you. Thanks. The sharpening makes the knives easy to maintain because they dull faster and require frequent sharpening. With a high level ofedge retention, corrosion resistance, and toughness, it does most everything quite well. Therefore, ensure to wash and dry your knives after use to keep the rust away. In general, higher carbon steels have higher edge retention but lower toughness. The definition of a quality knife differs among users because of varied needs, but there are basic properties that every quality knife must have. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. Is 440A really that much better than 420HC, or have you found a narrower gap? The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. The unique process used to make LC 200N results in a fine-grain structure. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! have extremely high edge retention. 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. If you need something that soaks up abuse, try 3V. A cryo treatment and close temperature control is necessary to achieve those hardness levels. Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. D2 steel also offers similar toughness levels as the 14c28n steel, so both aren't really prone to chipping with proper use. Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. S90V Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. These steels are typically used by forging bladesmiths, traditional folders, and some production fixed blades. what does a cvn of 40 v.s 20 mean? And Mn and Si isnt shown at all for the high alloy steels, even though those elements are added to all of them. Also how did you arrive at the edge retention & toughness numbers for 8cr13mov and for BD1N toughness? CN Vs VG-10 The Japanese steel, VG10 offers slightly higher edge retention but has the same level of hardness as 14C28N. That mixture has one goal in mind: making a great steel for people worried about rust and corrosion. Its in the same class as Vanadis 8 and 10V. Lately Ive been edcing one of those instead of a nice folder. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. Some steel companies charge more than others. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. And steels with at least 10% chromium are probably stainless, except for several important exceptions like D2 and ZDP-189. That way you can get into the steel ratings quickly. A2 knives need care taken to avoid rust and are often coated to inhibit corrosion. In general, the more carbide the steel has and the larger the carbides the lower is the toughness. Read about my tests in this article. . The D2 version is heavier and harder, but doesn't cut as smoothly. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. Here is the article by Larrin on 48 steels. D2 steel Softer steel usually forms larger burrs and they are more difficult to deburr. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. On the spreadsheet, youve grouped AUS-8 and 8Cr13MoV. A2 is a tool steel renowned for toughness. Read more. The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Time and use have proven this to be quite accurate. Very much appreciate you. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. imo o lot depends on how the blade is sharpened. It also improves edge retention and strength. Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. 14C28N. Yes its very easy to sharpen but it doesnt hold an edge at all. The both blade are equally wear resistant. If youre looking for all all-around best knife steel, youd be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. Therefore I will be showing the ratings of the steels graphically in terms of toughness-edge retention balance, where steels that are high and to the right have the best combination, and you choose the steel based on the level of toughness or edge retention necessary for the knife. 14C28N is a type of high-performance stainless steel used in knife-making. MC66 Properties: 14C28N: D2: Edge retention: 4/10: 7/10: Ease of sharpening: 6/10: 3/10: Corrosion resistance: 4/10: 4/10: Toughness: 6/10: 6/10: CIVIVI Knives Elementum Folding Pocket Knife 2.96" D2 Satin Blade . Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. Hi Larrin Youve occasionally mentioned cryo treatment in your posts, including here with LC200N. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. The line is only in the neighborhood of 5 of the datapoints. 14C28N steel is the improved version of 13C26 with better rust resistance. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. It can withstand a lot of wear and tear. But as the market has grown and newer steels have come out, it has fallen in price and prestige. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. As wear resistance is increased the differences between conventional and powder metallurgy steels become greater. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. MagnaCut Below I have shown the difference in carbide volume between AEB-L, CPM-10V, and Rex 121 to get an idea of how much more carbide there is in the high edge retention steels. 14C28N and D2 knives are affordable high-end knives. . Then we could say, e.g.
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