Joe's development of obsessions with different women often leads to violence due to his inability to create and maintain positive relationships, and he often resorts to violence when he feels as though he is being abandoned. Whitfield, C. L. (1991). In this article, I will explore existing psychological research on stalker behaviour and parallel these findings with Joe Goldberg's portrayal as one. Joe decided it would be a great idea to have him One of the most devilish sides of Joe as a character is that he remains calm and composed even when he is spotted by someone in a dicey situation. Yet, the series doesn't acknowledge this reality. I can really see the thought you have put into this, and your analysis of the show is excellent. According to Mental Health America, symptoms of codependency include a need to control others and an unhealthy dependence on relationships. Worrall, Daina. Henry already had survived, the measles when anti-vaxxer Gil admitted that it came from his children, but Love still bonked him on the head which led to his death. Berlanti, G., & Gamble, S. (Directors). "[Goldberg] was attached to someone, his mom, who was unresponsive to his needs, inconsistent, and not a safe person to him," Scott said. Malignant narcissists exhibit the traits associated with narcissistic personality disorder, including grandiosity, entitlement and lack of empathy, but also have antisocial tendencies, including a lack of remorse and blaming others for their actions. Joe's abusive childhood experiences and flashbacks played a crucial role whenever he hurt or crossed swords with someone he loved. Joe is a reader of the world. In either case, youve realized that hes a Scorpio. One in six American women and one in 17 American men are victims of stalking in their lifetimes, making this an important question, especially since Joe's stalking goes far beyond the man in a trench coat lurking in the bushes we often imagine. Not so fast. Copyright 2020 mentalhealthmatters-cofe.org. While Joe Goldberg is an extreme type of psychopath, we can't guarantee milder versions won't enter your life. It's easy to see how Joe's pursuit of his love object would fit the definition of an intimacy-seeking stalker given the way he pursues Beck, then Love, then Marienne throughout You's first three seasons. When he acts on these feelings to women, stalking can Joe Goldberg Sophia LeGris Psychoanalytic Theory Freud's theory of personality is made up of 3 major unconscious motives and conflicts, but I would like to turn the focus to one; The Id. Study of stalkers. named Joe Goldberg and the woman named Guinevere Beck. Azevedo, J., Vieira-Coelho, M., Castelo-Branco, M., Coelho, R., & Figueiredo-Braga, M. That was, of course, until Love caught wind of Joes attention shifting away from her and onto neighbour, Natalie Engler. who was obsessed with women. Is Joe a Psychopath or a Sociopath? You offers an extreme example of what can happen when a psychopath enters your life. It is significant to represent psychopaths, as it would teach us more about antisocial personality disorder, which anyone you know may be suffering from. He also demonstrates characteristics of narcissistic personality disorder, experts say. In Season 3 at least, one could argue that Joe killed for purpose (offing Ryan to give Marienne custody of her child and poisoning Love to free himself and Henry), while Love was impulsive and let jealousy and anger control her decisions. Pretty rich when you consider Love literally had sex with another man but was withholding that information from Joe, Sherry and Cary in the bedroom: pic.twitter.com/SpytmawrLc, Human Person (@JoyconArtist) October 20, 2021. Stay up to date with what you want to know. He also tends to hold women hostage when he is interested in them, When Love no longer provides Joe with the supply he requires, he ends her life. -, Narcissistic Personality Disorder: A Treatable Mental Disorder, Unraveling The Mystery Of Extroverts And Introverts: A Guide To Handwriting Analysis, Pronouncing Introvert With Confidence: A Guide To Mastering The Words Correct Pronunciation, Unlocking The History Of The Power Of Positive Thinking, Introverts Unite: Understanding The Dynamics Of Relationships Between Introverts. 40 Comments Please sign inor registerto post comments. He has often been described as a psychopath, but opinions have differed on what exactly ails our hero. ", However, You's characterization of Joe Goldberg isn't flawless. If you are an Aries, you may find Joe to be overly emotional. in his adult-like with the mental, psychological, and emotional abuse as a child or teenager. Joe is a textbook case because he is a very violent and depraved individual who thrives on killing and torturing his victims. A resentful stalkers' goal is to intimidate and frighten. Love Quinn after any inconvenience #YouNetflix #YOUSEASON3 #YouS3 pic.twitter.com/aSmSGHqOg0. Pop Culture's Problematic Portrayal of Psychopathy., Worrall, Daina. She has an extensive background in research, with 33 years of experience as a reference librarian and educator. had an abusive father. they have gone through, which connects them unconsciously. Ltd. All Rights Reserved, Ariana Grandes Film On Sweetener Tour Has Got Netflix & YouTube Into A Bidding War, Happy Birthday Meghan Markle! Codependence and Interdependence: cross-cultural reappraisal of So let You serve as a guidebook on what not to do in a new relationship. It'll mean the world. On December 26, Netflix released the highly-anticipated second season of its original thriller series "You," which centers around narrator Joe Goldberg, a young man who has a pattern of becoming obsessed with certain women, stalking them, winning them over, and killing anyone around them he believes has wronged his lover. However, some experts believe that Joe Goldberg from the Netflix series You may be a sociopath. The type of person who follows their own cases in the media, as well as who may contact or cause problems with investigators. These individuals often have a poor understanding of dating rituals as well as a sense of entitlement to a relationship. In addition to my work in mental health, I am also a professional book reviewer. 10. Gaslighting, verbal abuse, and intimidation are some of the most common forms of abusive behavior. So far, two seasons have been released, and the highly anticipated third season is coming out this October. His issues also seem to stem a lot from his childhood experiences, which make him obsessively codependent on his partner (or someone he envisions as being his partner), and when things dont work out, the antisocial (ASPD) tendencies kick in. Her father was an addict and she saw a lot of unpleasant times as a child because of his addiction. Everyone has a darkness and a light inside them. As Lev put it, "Hollywood wants the happy ending, and in reality, when women are in this relationship [with a malignant narcissist], they do not have a happy ending. Privacy Joe is adopted and cared for by a man named Mr. Mooney, but Joe is not treated well; he is locked in a glass cabinet filled with books, But on the other, he is the man of your dreams. "From a clinical perspective, the word 'psychopath' doesn't mean anything.". 2022 Mighty Proud Media, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Lynzee Smith There are three types of serial killers. PloS One, 15 (3), e0229876. When Natalie kissed Joe and he left and told Love, she was so hurt that she murdered Natalie to keep the Quinn-Goldberg family together. Goldberg wrongly assumes that being in a relationship with a woman means being entitled at all times to her complete attention and marks him as the only significant person in her life. several ways in society, which might seem immoral like such as manipulating, harming, or He loves to satisfy her and feels bad about himself when he fails to do so in his first attempt. The initial tag of being a psychopath, though not wrong, doesnt tell the complete story. Throughout You's first three seasons, Joe engages in a repeated pattern of behavior toward the characters he's become infatuated with: he meets a woman he finds attractive and fixates on her, he sifts through her social media profiles and other online activity, he starts to follow her in real life, he engineers "chance" meetings, and slowly insinuates himself into her life by presenting himself as the ideal man based on what he's learned about her. Trust your intuition, watch for the red flags, and, for God's sake, buy some curtains. 2023 Dotdash Media, Inc. All rights reserved. Retrieved September 24, 2020, from psycom/the-perfect-villain- Without spoiling anything, there are multiple close calls within the show where viewers may find themselves hoping Joe gets away with his actions. "The higher you are on the narcissistic spectrum, the less capable you are of changing," says Lev. Contests2win.com India Pvt. And as it so happens, we can learn a lot from Joe Goldberg. According to the British NHS, someone with ASPD is characterized by being manipulative, deceitful, and reckless. This has helped him cope with dealing with specific Quinn, his son and newfound friends, which shows us a different side of Personality (10th ed.). Health Communications. Now dont get me wrong, both Joe and Love are murderers and psychopaths. Psychoanalysis of "You"'s Joe Goldberg. I run the publications Peachy Keen Reviews & Bibliotherapy - Celebrating the Healing Power of Art - and The Horror Maven - A Celebration of the Macabre. (2001). "He's positioned as alone in the world, abused and neglected by his mom.". So far, two seasons have been released, and the highly anticipated third season is coming out this October. Love *going raw with Theo in the park the night before*: #YouNetflix #YOUSEASON3 #YouS3 pic.twitter.com/8jE8UYbk7O, Robyn The Sunflower (@Robyninbloom) October 18, 2021. "I always tell people: Pay attention when there's too much on the front end," Durvasula said. found a New York bookstore, Mooney's, as a manager. Goldberg's penchant for harming or killing those close to his love interest and obsession Beck also suggest he's morbidly codependent, according to Rutledge. Mind in the Media: What's So Appealing About Oddball Wednesday Addams? He wants to change, he wants to do things better, and we root for a person who wants to change and transform. Lev cautions that despite the way it comes across in the series, "people with [narcissistic personality disorder], they don't really have much remorse and they don't really feel guilt. Joe is very narcissistic and has a grandiose sense of self. How did we get here? Unfortunately, Joe does become infatuated with numerous new women which leads to more violence and obsessions that take him away from his new family. On top of that, he normalizes all his toxic characteristics, underlining that he does so in the name of love. There is no definitive answer to this question as it is difficult to diagnose someone based on their behavior without knowing their thoughts and motivations. Secondly, he was a serial killer, which took some real thinking. Become Premium to read the whole document. : an American History (Eric Foner), The Methodology of the Social Sciences (Max Weber), PSY 255 Trait Theory Short Answer Worksheet, Introduction to Personality Media Analysis Worksheet, Persuasive Essay-Thesis Statement and Gathering Resources Worksheet. escape a horrible past from an old love he had to Los Angeles. There are three types of killers: organized killers, medical killers, and disorganized killers. raised him, and even taught him an education. "A diagnosis is almost never clean-cut and disorders overlap. While working with Mr. Mooney as a teen, he adopted Joe. narcissists partners frequently confuse fear with love and are willing to do anything to keep the peace. In the television series You, a number of personality disorders are observed, including the main characters. Moreover, Joe's tragic backstory, which includes a mother who abandoned him after he shot and killed her abusive boyfriend and a foster father who locked him in a glass book cage for extended periods of time, establishes the roots of an attachment disorder that make it challenging for Joe to bond with or trust others. There are people willing to assist you in your time of need. individuals' personal memories and ideas," which why Joe would defend the person he loved to Visit Insider's homepage for more. a woman, he needs to be overprotected. One that truly loved beck and other that just wanted to get his way no matter what. People who engage in stalking behaviors can suffer from many issues, such as personality disorders like narcissistic personality disorder, delusional disorder, or attachment disorders. "Although You's depiction of Joe as someone who can feel guilt and empathy toward his victims brings humanity to the character, it's also led some fans to romanticize him. Goldberg committed all of these heinous and unlawful acts without showing remorse and did so for his own benefit in this case, being closer to Beck which suggests he could be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder, Scott said. Hence, Joe seems to have a form of ASPD (sociopathy), as opposed to him being a complete psychopath. "These [are] projections of what a perfect, ideal woman to be in love with [is] to him," Hatters Friedman explains. Cynthia Vinney, PhD is an expert in media psychology and a published scholar whose work has been published in peer-reviewed psychology journals. If you've watched Netflix's You, there's a chance you may have started to second-guess yourself recently. Mind in the Media: How Accurate is The Depiction of Stalking in Netflix's You? The first and second seasons plots revolve around the seemingly normal life of the main character, a man named Joe Goldberg, who becomes easily infatuated and develops intense obsessions with women who catch his eye. Joe Goldberg is a fictional character in the TV series You played by Penn Badgley.. Write something about yourself. Moreover, when he stalks Beck's wealthy friend Peach, who believes he's not good enough for Beck in season 1, or the comedian Henderson, who may have predatory intentions toward underage Ellie in season 2, he becomes the resentful stalker who sees himself as defending the downtrodden against these entitled, underserving individuals. So let You serve as a guidebook on what not to do in a new relationship. But Love was somehow surprised that Sherry and Cary heard her very loud murder admission?! Then when she shoved the Conrads in her glass box and Joe tried to think of non-violent ways to deal with the couple, Love handed them a gun and forced them to shoot each other. In essence, they In previous seasons, it was easy to see Joe as a psychopath due to his severe obsessions and violence with women, but there is more to Joes mental state than meets the eye. Hatters Friedman and Lev particularly cited Joe's behavior toward his newborn son in the third season of the series as unrealistic. Beforehand, let us go over some Freud stated, "adult defenses, are related to early childhood experiences" (Burger, 2019), making sense why he acts how he is Joe Goldberg has been a CIA covert action officer, corporate intelligence director, international political consultant, and currently is a college instructor and writer. it shows us a different perspective and puts us in the mind of a person with mental illness. Verywell Mind's content is for informational and educational purposes only. Instead, the best hope for anyone in a relationship with a malignant narcissist in real life is to get out. Finally, his violent tendencies make him a predatory stalker, especially when it comes to characters like Benji and Ryan. In Season 3, the Quinn family-funded bakery is where Love killed Natalie with an axe, knocked Gil unconscious with a rolling pin, and held the Conrads in her underground glass cage. He remains private to the general public, but is great at making deep connections with the people he cares about. Joe, a rare INFJ, has a serious personality problem. Despite continuously stalking, occasionally kidnapping and holding people captive, and several times even murdering others, Joe genuinely thinks he is a good guy. Hence, Joe clearly has issues with codependency, which inform the relationships he forms with women. He loves to read their mind and even though he is wrong most of the times, Joe believes he knows women best. The main couple in Season 3 has a very interesting connection. Delilah Alves. Mooney took care of him, Your email address will not be published. It can be inferred that because Joe was abandoned by his mother, but continued to hold her in high regard, he developed an unhealthy outlook on love and developed toxic codependency. He is attractive according to societys standards of beauty, his monologues in the show consist of great humor which makes him a likeable and relatable character, and the way he treats children shows us that hes rather polite, caring, and respectful (obviously not enough to respect peoples privacy). Sarah Regan is a Spirituality & Relationships Editor, a registered yoga instructor, and an avid astrologer and tarot reader. While Joe had already been turned off Love since he learned that she was basically the same person as him at the end of Season 2, Natalies murder was what really spelled the end of the Quinn-Goldberg love story. Joe Goldberg has established specific coping methods when it comes to functioning in high "[In season 3]," Hatters Friedman says, "he's trying hard to do the right thing and to be a good dad, which implies some ability to attach to others and to have empathy for the child.". He is a bookstore clerk, and that is where he gained most of his knowledge. However, our hero also channels traits that are not covered by this diagnosis. I specialize in borderline personality disorder, eating disorders, schizoaffective disorder, anxiety, depression, and PTSD. The Id is described as the "unconscious energy" that strives to satisfy basic sexual and aggressive drives. If you ask him, he is not doing anything wrong and thats why his face doesnt reflect his monstrous side. And its pretty iconic. The reward for Joe would be that Benji would be out of The balance of power and respect are important distinctions between normal and abuse cycles. For example, when she murdered her nanny as a child, the Quinn family covered it up. Because . People with narcissistic personality disorder havean inflated sense of self-importanceand lack of empathy for others, which are typically mechanisms used to mask their low self-esteem, according to the Mayo Clinic. Joe Goldberg is one of those rare sociopaths who come across as very charming. After being in As soon as he discovered that he was the murderer, he killed Beck and Candace, covered his tracks, and moved on. He has a mindset of telling his victims that he is only there to help them, he violating other people in different ways. Love and connection are primary factors that we often seek, and they are Joes primary motivation as well. The 33-year-old actor's comment was made in response to Colbert asking him: "Do you have anything to say to the people out there that say they want to date Joe, despite the minor flaw of murdering people?" "It's not a clinical portrayal of a serial killer," Badgley said after defending fans. She was born and raised on Nantucket Island. Ever.". He is a master in the skill of manipulating people using his innocent face. For example, when the word psychopath or stalker comes to mind, one would highly likely picture a person with an unlikeable, strange personality who is scruffy, unkept, uneducated, and neither polite nor visually appealing. Joe Goldberg When it comes to the most intelligent characters on You, Joe Goldberg would have to be named number one. So, to get to the bottom of the You phenomena, we turned to psychologist Perpetua Neo, DClinPsy, for insight on how psychopaths manage to suck us in. Despite Love always telling Joe that she does what she does to protect their family, Loves relationship with Theo says otherwise. Joe does not know his biological mother, Sandy, and he "I know it seems fun and romantic, but it's probably a trainwreck waiting to happen.". It may be just a show, but it can tell us a lot about red flags and how to avoid problematic scenarios. He had the potential to be such a good person and the ability to use his great skill of reading people to do more good than bad, but he chose the dark road. oversee that Joe Goldberg might switch over these theories. The fact that he has no remorse about killing any of them just shows that he could honestly even kill Paco if he somehow becomes a threat to Joe. Leiden, Luke. Burger, J. M. (2019). What's the Difference Between a Sociopath and a Narcissist? he is a sociopath and is obsessed with Beck, he continually stalks her and gets rid of anyone who will distance her from Joe. To win over his ever-changing objects of desire, Joe also employs appalling means that are highly illegal. Despite Love thinking that she was killing to protect her marriage and family, she was just needlessly killing with no restraint. Joe is not a control freak on the bed and loves his girl to come above him and dominate. of these categories. Grand Canyon University: PSY- Click here to find out how. As stated in Kwon article, "At first, the Cookies collect information about your preferences and your devices and are used to make the site work as you expect it to, to understand how you interact with the site, and to show advertisements that are targeted to your interests. Kwon, S.-Y. stressful situations due to how he grew up. It comes down to the empathy that Joe evokes, according to Neo. He always seems to mirror others, is dishonest, and completely selfish when it comes to his own child. that-romance-built-joe-goldberg-on-you/. ", They're masters of making "the right first impressions, creating this perception, weaving this little web in which they learn about you and stage their entrance into your life," says Neo. Although he knows better than to project his intentions to hurt or kill, he lures or sneaks up on his victims in order to more easily enact his brutal plans. Despite being fully aware that she had two guests upstairs one of whom literally ran the search party for Natalie Engler Love loudly screamed about how she murdered Natalie. The fact that both ASPD and psychopathic tendencies can stem from environmental factors also brings us to the rest of our romantic serial killers diagnosis. Joe had a nightmarish childhood. His use of enhanced vocabulary and choice of words exhibits how intelligent and educated he is. She is emotionally manipulative, controlling, and insecure, and her behavior reflects this. There are many ways to tackle this question, including how it reflects our ideals of romance in a rapidly changing dating landscape. Netflix came out with an unforgettable TV Series named "YOU." Penn Badgley played a Their grandiosity and entitlement are not so visible. Retrieved from netflix/watch/80212201?trackId=13752289. Movies, TV shows, and even Joe's beloved books depict men pursuing romance by "accidentally" bumping into their love interest or continuing to pursue her even after she's said she isn't interested. self-defense to save himself and his mother from his father. Joe had a rough life present situations, he was flashing back to his childhood memories. Get hand-picked resources and highlights from our Mighty community straight to your inbox. The murders of Joe and Love differ in several ways, as do the types of serial killers. Because Joe is a charming character, most people watching the show find themselves rooting for him, even when he is facing the well deserved consequences of his own actions. Not as a real person but i rooted for him because of the way he treated beck and how he showered her with "love and Care", I believed he could turn out to be good. Terms. Instead, she told Joe that she was just pretending to flirt with Theo to get information from his dad. The Complexity of The Psychopathic Mind., Leiden, Luke. The abuse of the victim, as well as the use of emotional and psychological abuse, is used by narcissists to control their target. Also, he has a sign of being an individual who can be very His work at the CIA garnered three Exceptional Performance Awards. When we look at Joe's history, we see that he was brought up in a horrible, mistreated When you visit the site, Dotdash Meredith and its partners may store or retrieve information on your browser, mostly in the form of cookies. Natalie wasnt a threat to her family because Joe decided to not pursue the relationship, yet Love still murdered her. An abuse cycle is characterized by peoples narcissistic tendencies, which are characterized by a pattern of behavior that causes their relationships to deteriorate. Sarah Regan mbg Spirituality & Relationships Editor Jung had similar views like Freud did. The goal of intimacy-seeking stalkers is to enter into a relationship with the person they're stalking, who they believe is meant to be with them. No matter what the opinion, it is clear that Joe Goldberg is a complex character whose actions cannot be easily explained. Later in the season, Goldberg also killed Beck's best friend Peach because he didn't like how Beck and Peach's relationship interfered with his and Beck's relationship. He is a serial killer, stalker and former bookstore manager who, upon meeting Guinevere Beck at his workplace in New York, starts to develop an extreme, toxic and delusional obsession. So when we have empathy for someone, it hooks us in. Mental Health Specialist & Coach - Author - Bibliotherapist - Book Reviewer My name is Ashley Nestler, and I have my master's of social work with an emphasis in mental health, as well as certifications in mental health coaching, art therapy coaching, crystal healing, dialectical behavior therapy, and bibliotherapy. She is also highly independent and takes risks, which is something she enjoys doing. Thank you, {{form.email}}, for signing up. Speaking of the swingers night, Love wouldnt know how to be lowkey if her life depended on it and it did. Joe undertook therapy sessions, out of which a very significant method used by Sigmund Freud is exhibited in the show. Here, we delve into what scholars and mental health professionals know about stalking to discover just how realistic You is. In the latest season, we watched Joe and Love move to the picturesque town of Madre Linda to raise their son, Henry. It is also possible that you will require professional assistance. References For example, when Beck ex-lover, Benji, whom she did not want in her life anymore. disorder and narcissistic personality disorder seem to have a lack of empathy. Even though he is outright creepy, you cant really spot whats going on in his mind. Android & IOS users, download our mobile app for faster than ever Bollywood & Box Office updates! All of which Joe had experienced as a child. household that has made him codependent as an adult. On one hand, the series' central character, Joe Goldberg (Penn Badgley), is the psychotic architect of his own delusional love story. He first started in New York and things to understand who Joe is and where he came from, then we can get into analyzing who impulsive aggression and higher premeditated aggression (Azevedo, et al. In some ways, Goldberg embodies both conditions because he's constantly violent when he believes a person has wronged him, a common justification people with both illnesses make for their behavior. She received her bachelor's in broadcasting and mass communication from SUNY Oswego, and lives in Buffalo, New York. Love does not care about consequences or the messes she makes. Cognitive behavioral therapist Dr. Avigail Lev, director of Bay Area CBT Center and founder of CBT Online, gets more specific, diagnosing Joe with covert malignant narcissism. Belmont, CA: Wadsworth-Thomson Learning. I utilize art therapy and bibliotherapy in my mental health work, and I work with individuals struggling with mental illness, as well as their loved ones. This is an accurate example of how psychopaths gaslight others. Even though Joe, unsettlingly played by Penn Badgley, is fictional, his patterns of behavior toward the latest object of his desire come across as frighteningly realistic. Plans out his murders, Just do has a cover story, & it is able to fully backtrack & cover everything up #YouNetflix #YOUSEASON3 pic.twitter.com/lXScPy2jHK. According to the National Institutes of Health, people with antisocial personality disorder lack empathy, and as a result, may act in ways that society considers morally unsound, like manipulating others to get what they want or violating another's privacy. Cognitive behavioral therapist Dr. Avigail Lev, director of Bay Area CBT Center and founder of CBT Online, gets more specific, diagnosing Joe with covert malignant narcissism. Rosenbaum KB, Hatters Friedman S. You (the novel and the television series). Date: September 22, 2020, Comparison of Theorists: Joe Goldberg In 1979, Lenore Walker developed the cycle of abuse theory in an attempt to explain an abusive relationships repeated events.
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